Sasha Gordon is the art world’s rising star, best known for offering luminous renderings of her own likeness in the form of contemporary, chubby, pin-up style paintings. She’s David Zwirner’s youngest artist at just 26 and is on her way to spend a month in Italy at the Bottéga Projects Artist Residency. But for the duration of our interview, she’s just a girl.
Sasha and I met over Zoom mid-August, Brat Summer was in full bloom and visions of cigarettes and iced matcha lattes danced in her head. Through a digital haze, we took the time to dissect some highly important topics such as Lana Del Rey’s monumental album Ultraviolence and Sasha’s first kiss with a creepy German au pair. Please enjoy as we indulge in shameless, brain rot, hot girl, girl talk and just a little art world lore.
Gwyneth Giller: Are you in your studio or at home?
Sasha Gordon: I’m in my studio. I’ve been kind of a homebody for the past few weeks because I’m in-between recovering from my last show and trying to start a new body of work. But I’ve been having cabin fever so I’ve been forcing myself to come to the studio more.
GG: What was your last show?
SG: The last show was a group show, Overflow, Afterglow: New Work in Chromatic Figuration, at the Jewish Museum. I made four new works which were much more intimate than what I usually paint. I showed my first sex painting so that felt very vulnerable. I’m moving away from the anthropomorphic, transformational theme I was doing for my last show at ICA Miami.
GG: Ah yes, I actually listened to your ICA Miami artist talk.
SG: OMG, you did? I was so nervous for that.
GG: Do you get nervous speaking publicly?
SG: All the time. I feel like I’m really bad at articulating my process or anything that has to do with my paintings. They’re so natural for me to create so anytime I talk about them I freak out and feel like an imposter.
GG: I’ve noticed in an artist’s career, as you grow, you kind of have to turn yourself into somewhat of a politician.
SG: Literally.
GG: Fashion question alert: I heard that once upon a time, you wanted to be a fashion designer? Who was your favorite designer back then?
SG: I was really young when I wanted to be in fashion so I only knew like three brands. Probably Louis Vuitton, Chanel and Gucci. I really liked Chanel for some reason, I think I actually just liked the logo. I thought it was really clever, great graphic design.
GG: Shout out to Chanel’s original graphic designer.
SG: That was kind of the only luxury brand I knew and gravitated towards. Now, looking back at it, I don’t think I actually liked any of their actual clothes. Maybe I just liked the bags and the accessories.
GG: I would literally die for a Chanel bag.
SG: Same.
GG: What kind of pieces were you making?
SG: I wasn’t actually sewing things, I was just drawing a lot. I would draw a lot of fashion figures and would add way too much detail to the faces. That’s when I realized, “Oh, maybe I should just paint portraits”.
GG: Who’s your favorite designer currently?
SG: I feel like this is basic but I like John Paul Gaultier a lot. I think it’s classic and a lot of their clothing is elastic so it’s size is inclusive.
GG: I love JPG and the incorporation of nudity in the design. I love the idea of putting on clothing to be perceived as nude.
SG: The trompe-l’œil effect is really cool.
GG: And it plays into your painting style really well.
SG: For sure, it’s really textured and graphic.
GG: And fleshy! Okay, what’s the most abused item in your closet right now?
SG: I wear this fucking Chloé bag all the time. It fits my laptop somehow so recently, it’s been my studio bag. I’ve graduated from tote bags.
GG: You’re a grown woman now.
SG: Exactly.
GG: I read that you replicated Starry Night when you were a child?
SG: Yeah, I took these painting classes in the next town over once a week. They just had us paint any image we wanted to paint. I started in kindergarten but I took it way more seriously in high school. That’s when it turned into a practice over a hobby. I started oil painting in the third grade.
GG: Oh my god, that’s so advanced.
SG: Yeah, it’s actually funny how they had us working with those chemicals. I remember I would always accidentally dip my brush into whatever beverage I was drinking.
GG: What were you painting in third grade?
SG: I was doing a lot of master copies. I did Monet Lily Pad paintings, a Georgia O’Keeffe Poppy Flower, and a lot of Van Gogh. Then in middle school I was doing weird safari shit, I was painting a lot of lions. I don’t know… I had a phase.
One of the first portraits I painted in oil was a scene from Blue is the Warmest Color which is funny because I didn’t even know I was gay back then.
GG: All the signs were there!
SG: All the signs were there and somehow I just found out.
GG: When was your first kiss?
SG: My first kiss was actually in college. I thought I was a-sexual at the time because I was just kind of repulsed by everyone. Then I went on a Tinder date my freshman year and it was awful. It was with this really creepy German au pair. It was like… [laughs] so scary.
GG: I’m so sorry.
SG: It’s okay, it prepared me for the New York dating scene.
GG: I’m trying to get a sense of your type. Who’s your dead hall pass?
SG: Do they have to be dead?
GG: Dead or alive.
SG: For alive, probably Kate Moennig from The L Word. For someone dead, I don’t know who I’d smash.
GG: Mine would be Jeff Buckley.
SG: Mine would be the guy from The Crow, Bruce Lee’s son.
GG: Brandon Bruce Lee! What is one thing that you can’t live without?
SG: Maybe my headphones. I’m so bad at being alone with my thoughts so I constantly need distraction.
GG: What was the last song that you listened to?
SG: What is Love by Haddaway.
GG: Banger.
SG: Yeah, I’ve been into really good beats lately. I’ve been listening to Charli XCX’s album Brat a lot. I was trying to avoid it for some reason, maybe because everyone loved it so much but it’s really fucking good.
GG: I was going to ask you what your favorite song is on the album, I literally prepared that question for you.
SG: I can’t believe that was a question. It would either be Guess or Apple.
GG: This is highbrow journalism. I have another Charli XCX related question – who is someone you need to work it out on the remix with?
SG: Wow, I love this. There was this one person I was friends with in high school, it was one of those codependent friendships that felt kind of gay. I was jealous of her a lot, especially when she started getting male attention. We’re chill now, I’ve seen her like a few times out of college but we kind of grew apart. I’ll always have some type of love for her.
There’s also some art world people—but maybe I don’t want to work it out with them. I would just prefer to stay away from them. They’re not even invited to make an appearance on the album actually.
GG: Girl, so confusing.
SG: Exactly.
GG: Who’s your favorite pop star?
SG: Lady Gaga. I’m such a little monster. I just watched her documentary, Gaga: Five Foot Two, and cried a little bit.
GG: What’s a word you use too often?
SG: I still say “slay” a lot. I feel like it’s making a resurgence again but in a different way, right? I also like to say, “it’s giving”.
GG: I say “swag” and “yolo” a lot; I don’t know where those are coming from.
SG: It’s your inner child.
GG: What’s a guilty pleasure of yours?
SG: I love to smoke a joint at 8 PM and watch TV. Lately I’ve been watching Smiling Friends, it’s an Adult Swim cartoon. It’s kind of dark but I love going home and doing that. I feel like I’m so focused when I’m at the studio painting so I need to go home and have brain rot.
GG: Totally. What’s something that you shouldn’t be embarrassed about but you are?
SG: This is a hard one. Probably eating alone at a restaurant. It’s actually quite pleasant but I always feel embarrassed when I do it.
GG: So real. What’s the best advice you’ve ever received and have you listened to it?
SG: I guess it’s very simple, it’s just to not care about what people think. My mom would always tell me this.
GG: What’s your favorite thing about yourself?
SG: I think people feel comfortable around me which I’m happy about.
GG: What’s your least favorite thing about yourself? Sorry if I’ve now taken on the role of your therapist.
SG: Oh no, I love these questions. Um, I think I can be selfish sometimes. For example, if I’m stressed about a show, it can feel like this is the end of the world and everything is about me until my stress is resolved. I’ll notice that I haven’t been present or there for people in those times, but then it’ll hit me and I’m totally there for them.
GG: If you could have anyone in the world paint a portrait of you, who would you choose?
SG: Lisa Yuskavage.
GG: Who would play you in your biopic?
SG: I feel like there aren’t that many people who look exactly like me. Maybe the girl that’s in Everything Everywhere All At Once, Stephanie Hsu. I think we have similar physical qualities.
GG: It doesn’t have to be based on appearance, it can also be based on spirit.
SG: Cate Blanchett, she’s a fav actor of mine.
GG: How would you describe your relationship with yourself?
SG: I think it was very tumultuous when I was growing up. I really distanced myself from myself to the point where I just didn’t really care what happened to me. I thought I just deserved the worst. But now, I’m trying to be my friend.
GG: I know a lot of your work is based off of your own likeness, what is your favorite portrait of yourself?
SG: I like the painting where I’m painting myself. I feel like it’s very self-referential and I feel very connected to it. I spend the majority of my time painting so it’s kind of an insider peek into my life. It’s called My Friend Will Be Me (currently on view at The Brooklyn Museum’s American Art Galleries).
GG: If you were an NYC borough, what would you be?
SG: Brooklyn.
GG: What’s your Brooklyn neighborhood Sun, Moon and Rising?
SG: My sun is Bushwick, my rising is Clinton Hill and my moon is Williamsburg because I’m a little basic sometimes. I love convenience and I love shopping.
GG: If you could name an Essie nail polish, what would the color be and what would you name it?
SG: Maybe a silvery black and it’d be called glock or gunmetal.
GG: What’s your most toxic trait?
SG: I love to gossip. I can be a good secret keeper…but if it’s juicy enough I will tell it.
GG: Who was the last person you followed on Instagram?
SG: Jeremy Fragrance. He’s like EuroTrash except he’s actually EuroGold. I love him so much. He reviews perfume and cologne and he’s just on one all the time. He’s insane. He wears all white everyday and eats the most ridiculous meals to keep his body fit. Every time he meets a fan he asks them what they’re wearing and if they don’t know the name of the scent, he’s deeply offended. He’s so entertaining, you would love him.
GG: Fuck, marry, kill: gaslight, gatekeep and girlboss.
SG: Fuck gaslight…because I have [laughs]. Kill girlboss maybe? She’s been done. Then I would marry gatekeep because I think there are some things that should be sacred and secret.
GG: I know flesh and skin are important motifs in your work and I’m noticing you have a lot of tattoos. What’s your relationship to the art on your own body?
SG: Tattooing was a way to curate my body and have more agency. Before then, I felt out of control of how I was perceived. But at the same time, my tattoos make me feel even more perceived.
GG: What was the first tattoo you got?
SG: My first machine tattoo was of these hands holding guns from a Strokes album…I used to LOVE The Strokes. It’s from their second album called Room on Fire. But I guess my first actual tattoo was this eyeball that I stick and poked on myself in my room when I was 17 with India ink and a needle.
GG: Have you ever painted a figure with tattoos?
SG: I generally don’t. I like my figures to look kind of pure and timeless. I love the lack of context, I don’t want them to look as affected by trends.
GG: What’s your favorite portrait in all of art history?
SG: I can’t think of the title right now but it’s a classical painting of this woman grabbing another woman’s tit (Gabrielle d’Estrées and One of Her Sisters). I also just love a Dutch Renaissance painting that’s humorous.
GG: Assemble a girl group (band) with any artists of your choice.
SG: It would have to be like 2012 Tumblr vibes with Lana Del Rey, Marina and the Diamonds, Sky Ferreira, and Mars Argo. Oh, and Fiona Apple, why not?
GG: What’s your favorite Lana Del Rey era or song or both?
SG: I think my favorite album and era might be Ultraviolence, when she was just wearing skinny jeans and white tees. A whole mix-matched, girl next door vibe. That’s very classic to me. I need to put my favorite Lana songs into categories: fun and heartfelt. Florida Kilos is more fun, light hearted and happy. Something more emo would be California and Love Song from Norman Fucking Rockwell.
GG: Describe your own identity.
SG: Hm, okay I’m like a thick girl, a chubby girl. I’m silly but also very serious. Sometimes I think it’s funny how seriously I take my painting. This is a hard question. I don’t want to just say I’m Asian-American and gay!
GG: Do you have a diary?
SG: I don’t. I use my notes app but I should probably get a diary. I have a lot of intrusive thoughts that I should probably write down.
GG: Would you be comfortable reading any snippet of your choice from your notes app?
SG: Sure, let’s see…okay here: CVS to do list: Shampoo, Conditioner, Razor Heads, Knitted Tights, Salt Lake City Housewives tonight, read therapist the weird DM you got, 12:30 dentist, paint myself as a wood figure. And I did paint myself as a wood figure!
GG: Do you ever just walk around and think to yourself, “no one knows I’m the youngest artist at David Zwirner”?
SG: [laughs] Sometimes. That’s how I felt when I went to the 2023 Met Gala and the next morning I was getting a bagel and just thinking to myself, “no one in this deli knows I met Hugh Jackman in an elevator last night.”
Words by Gwyneth Giller
