Milena Gorum and Gwyneth Giller on the art of holding on a little too long for Girl Talk
Milena joins the call after running downstairs to grab a package, something I imagine is routine for a set designer. She’s wildly successful, yet carries a stoic softness—and an incurable sickness to collect things. It’s always fun to see what others feel the urge to hold onto, the histories of little plastic novelties. In her own words, “doing this shoot was a dream, come look at all my fucking trinkets.”
When Milena was younger, she was a Barbie girl, raised on her mother’s vintage collection. Now, she builds fantasy worlds in West Hollywood parking lots. Our conversation is tragically honest for two girls who just met. Again and again, we return to the idea of a God-or Gucci boot–sized hole in our hearts. She shows me her “holy Bible box,” stuffed with harrowing letters from ex-lovers. We’re toggling between the sacred and ridiculous: 1Oak, motherhood, and how to design an aesthetic torture room.
Gwyneth Giller: What were you doing before this?
Milena Gorum: I’m prepping a job for LEGOs with Condé Nast next week, so I was literally just running to my front door to pick up a package of Star Wars LEGOs.
GG: Were you a LEGO girl growing up?
MG: You would think so, but I was way more of a Barbie girl. I grew up with my mom’s vintage ones, she had the funniest old Barbies. There was one that was the “teenage Barbie,” and you’d twist her arm and she’d grow boobs.
GG: Wait, that’s crazy. Did you ever go through a phase where you wanted to destroy all of them?
MG: No. My mom would have actually killed me. I knew they were hers, so out of respect I didn’t want to mess with them.
GG: What’s your relationship like with your mom?
MG: She’s like my older sister. It’s hard when she comes down on me the way a mother would because, you know, I’m walking into it being like, “Oh, so we’re not going to girl out together?”
GG: What does she get on to you about?
MG: Like not paying my renter’s insurance. Or not having health insurance.
GG: What were you like as a teenager?
MG: Difficult.
GG: I feel like the hardest time period between a mother and daughter’s relationship is the teenage years… speaking from experience.
MG: Oh, definitely. I was 18, still living at home— I didn’t go to college because I was modeling out of high school. And then I got really high on mushrooms and just had this realization like, oh my god, my mom was just me who had a kid, and it was so scary. I mean, it’s embarrassing to even be 18 and have not realized that earlier.
GG: I think we all know those types of things, but until you really understand them, like within your cellular composition, it’s hard to feel real empathy. Was that your first ever experience on mushrooms and having an epiphany like that?
MG: Yeah, it was.
GG: Have you ever seen Gilmore Girls?
MG: I mean, yes, I’m aware of the show, of course.
GG: I think it’s such a beautiful representation of mother-daughter relationships, especially if you have that very thin line between friendship and mother-daughter.
MG: Totally.
GG: How was your fashion week?
MG: I ended up designing one runway presentation. I was essentially just building out a faux landscape in front of this curved LED screen, where they made it look like an Icelandic, volcanic, rocky beach. So thank goodness I didn’t actually have to participate during actual fashion week, which I was really grateful for, because I ended up booking a commercial in LA instead.
GG: So you’re still modeling?
MG: Not anymore.
GG: Did modeling lead you to set design?
MG: Well, my mom was a big model in the ’80s, so I grew up always looking at her portfolio. She had shot with all the greats—Helmut Newton, Herb Ritts, Peter Lindbergh, Mapplethorpe.
She was a very technical model, and she’d be like, “You have to think about what the camera is seeing.” So even as a model, I was very aware of where my key light was, how I was sitting in the chair, how much of my body was angled toward it. Any good model is thinking about these things while posing, they’re thinking about the image as a whole.
So it definitely influenced me. Even when I was a teenager, I was already kind of coming to terms with the fact that my career wasn’t going to be like my mom’s—I wasn’t going to have Vogue covers, I wasn’t going to walk Paris Fashion Week. I communicated this to my agency and said, “I think I want to be a wardrobe stylist.” And they gave me the opportunity to start styling the new faces’ test shoots.
GG: That’s so cool. How old were you then?
MG: When I started, I was like 17, because I got signed when I was 15 years old. Then when I was 18, I had a small role in this horror movie that was filming in LA–
GG: Do I know it?
MG: No, no, no. It was on Netflix for a few years, but I basically hatched out of this alien egg—like a succubus demon. It was full frontal nudity, and then I was stabbed and killed. It was fun.
GG: Were you nervous at all?
MG: Not really, I definitely grew up with nudity being a celebrated art form.
GG: Speaking of nudity—on the flip side—what was the last piece of clothing that you bought?
MG: Oh my god. I finally invested in a pair of black Gucci boots. It was one of those real Goldilocks situations where I bought three different pairs that just weren’t right or didn’t fit and had to return them, and then finally ended up with the right one.
GG: You’re just like, “Oh, this is it. Surely this last clothing item is going to fill the void.”
MG: I know. Every time I splurge on something, I’m like, “And I’ll never need to buy a single piece of clothing after this.” Then six months pass and I’m like…
GG: [laughs] What did you do for Valentine’s Day?
MG: I recently started seeing someone, but for Valentine’s Day, one of my good girlfriends is actually born on Valentine’s Day. So she was going to have a pregame at the Beverly Hills Hotel and then go to this party. And I’m sober, so I was like, you know, maybe I’m going to miss the pregame, and then we can just do dinner another night.
So I ended up just watching Twin Peaks and then getting a really random burger at like 10:00 p.m with the guy that I’ve been seeing. And it was honestly perfect.
GG: That sounds so cute. You said that you’re sober—when did you become sober, and how did that journey start?
MG: Tomorrow will be five months.
GG: Congratulations!
MG: Thank you. I wouldn’t call what I experienced debilitating alcoholism, but I do think about all the times in my life where I’ve been debilitated by the way I was partying. It just felt so entrenched with my lifestyle as a model, especially as a teenager. I think I had this intense interest in feeling grown up and wanting to try everything once.
They talk a lot about it in A.A., about having a “spiritual malady,” or whatever—a God-sized hole in your heart. I’m not sure if I’m looking to believe in God, but alcohol and drugs were definitely an attempt to fill that. And now, I guess, it’s Gucci boots.
GG: What you said about wanting to try everything. I feel like there’s such a childlike curiosity behind that, but when you reach a certain age, you start getting satisfied by things that aren’t necessarily productive—like drinking and drugs. Do you have any fulfilling hobbies now?
MG: Yes, I want to try getting into furniture making, or woodworking on my own, not just for large-scale set fabrication. That feels important to me, at least to try this year.
GG: I think it’s also a very utilitarian practice—you can live with the things you make in your house, too.
MG: Floral is also one of my hobbies. I have my spam account just for my floral arrangements called “Georgia O’Queef.”
GG: Oh my god—that’s so good. Have you seen Wuthering Heights?
MG: No, I haven’t, but I did the promo photo for Charli XCX.
GG: Oh cool—what was that like?
MG: I had to recreate a forest scene for her to lay in—but in a parking lot in West Hollywood—because we couldn’t shoot interiors and also travel to a location. So I had to bring the location there.
GG: How long did that take you?
MG: Oh, just the morning.
GG: Do you remember your first love?
MG: Um, my first love in high school was my best friend’s older brother. I mean, I ended up dating him, so it wasn’t just like the older brother you have a crush on.
GG: Wait, what was your best friend’s reaction to you guys dating?
MG: I mean—tea—she was secretly hooking up with his best friend. So I think to her, she was like, “This will lessen the blow when he finds out.”
GG: Good ammo. Do you remember a particular song impacting you a lot when you were young?
MG: Probably “Since U Been Gone.” I have distinct memories with the iPod Nano, listening to that one in the backyard and singing to it, and my mom being like, “You gotta pipe down.”
GG: Kelly Clarkson was my first concert ever, and I have these photos of me and my two friends in her merch, cute little headbands, and I’m just throwing on the duck face and the peace sign.
MG: It’s such a timestamp. Very core.
GG: Very core. What was the last artist you listened to?
MG: Let me look at my phone—Angel Du$t. I just did a couple of their music videos.
GG: Wait, I know them.
MG: They’re a hardcore band. So I was listening to them because the music videos I worked on with them last year just came out, and I was like, wait—I want to do a deep dive on the 2016 stuff that I used to love when I was fresh out of high school. So I was on the StairMaster listening to one of the songs off that 2016 album.
GG: That’s a perfect place to listen to hardcore. I had such a phase—I was dating this emo guy, and that was when I was listening to them.
MG: I was such a System of a Down girl in high school. Nothing about me made sense. I was an aspiring model, going to 1Oak, and also taking AP classes, thinking I was going to go to college.
I definitely had everything in my life set to go a certain way and then kind of made this one judgment call when I was out one night—I’m actually not going to go to college.
GG: I mean, honestly, in this day and age, I think going to college can be useless to a certain degree. If you’re going to be a doctor or a lawyer or get your MBA, sure. But for so many fields in the arts, I don’t feel like it’s necessarily needed.
MG: No, definitely. I’m super happy I didn’t, because I don’t think I’d be in the position I am no, especially having worked in the industry for over 12 years.
GG: What’s a habit that’s grounding you right now?
MG: Probably yoga. Like…really obvious answer.
GG: What’s something that you pretend not to care about, but you actually do?
MG: I guess pretending not to care if I’m not liked by someone. But I think most people feel that way. There’s an aspect of everyone that’s people-pleasing and wants to be liked. And how are you not going to have your ego attached to someone not liking you?
GG: What’s a personality type that makes you feel most at ease?
MG: Easygoing, but concise.
GG: What’s your sign?
MG: Cancer.
GG: What’s your biggest pet peeve right now?
MG: When people won’t make eye contact with me when they’re having a conversation.
GG: Do you know the left-eye trick? You have to look at someone’s left eye for them to feel like you’re making real eye contact. When you look at the right eye, there’s a disconnect. I read it’s because most women are right-handed, so when they breastfeed, it’s the right breast, and the baby’s left eye is looking at their mom. So it’s like an instinctual, evolutionary thing.
MG: Wow, I didn’t know that.
GG: Do you want kids one day?
MG: I think so. I can’t be totally sure, obviously a huge part of that is having a partner who’s willing to take on that responsibility with you. I feel like I’ve gone through ebbs and flows of being sure about it, but it seems like a natural progression for the things that I want. Although I’d have to give up a lot of my career, which is such a huge identifier for me right now.
GG: What’s a hill you would die on?
MG: Fuck on the first date if you want to. We all die in the end.
GG: Amen. What’s something you learned way too early in life?
MG: That marriage is hard and people are fallible. My parents were very human, they loved my sister and me a lot. But learning that being married doesn’t stop people from cheating… finding that out as a kid was really shocking.
GG: Did they stay together?
MG: No, they got a divorce. It feels so huge when you’re like 11 and your parents are getting divorced. But being a kid in LA, you confide in a friend at Girl Scouts and they’re like, “Yeah, mine too.” Everyone’s parents have already split up. It’s so funny.
GG: I was raised in a very divorce-positive household. My parents got divorced when I was two, so I didn’t know any other way. But my mom always told me: marry someone who you think would be nice through a divorce.
MG: [laughs] That’s a good point. And there are way worse things that can happen.
GG: What’s something you’re currently romanticizing?
MG: Going on a vacation. I would love that shit.
GG: What’s your most treasured possession?
MG: Doing this shoot was a dream, come look at all my fucking trinkets. My most treasured possession is in my “holy Bible box.” Inside is every note that anyone I’ve ever dated has written to me.
GG: Wow.
MG: So there are some… harrowing things in there.
GG: Oh my god. That’s the real Bible.
MG: The tears on this one are so real. (holding up letter)
GG: You’re a certified trinket girl.
MG: The sickness is that everything could be a prop in a still life. Even if I don’t need it, I’ll stash it away and be like, you know, this is going to look really nice paired with lipstick or a flower.
GG: It’s a write-off! What’s something you’ve outgrown, but still keep around?
MG: Boys.
GG: [laughs] You better hope the guy you’re seeing doesn’t read that.
MG: No, no—I’m kidding. I have a plushie. I have one small lamb in my bed. I’m not crazy, I don’t have a bunch. But I have to sleep really specifically with it—it can’t be in the bed, or if it touches my leg I’ll feel like there’s a gerbil in there. So I keep it off to the side, and if I need it, I’ll just reach over and touch it for a second.
GG: What’s the sentimental significance of it?
MG: It’s not even from childhood. I had to get props for a diaper bag commercial, and it just really spoke to me. I was like, this is my baby now.
GG: Are you a good secret keeper?
MG: No. I love tea. It’s a disease.
GG: Same. What was the last film you watched?
MG: I recently rewatched Buffalo ’66.
GG: Is there a film with perfect set design, in your opinion?
MG: It’s hard to say, there’s such a range. Obviously every set designer loves a Wes Anderson film. But then something like Hostel—I love the set design in that. Like, how would I design my torture room?
GG: When do you feel most like yourself lately?
MG: When I’m at dinner with my sister.
GG: Who would you invite to your last dinner on Earth?
MG: Definitely my mom. Probably Barbra Streisand. Larry David as a middler.
GG: When do you feel most alive?
MG: Maybe like day three of a really fucked-up video shoot. When I’m exhausted, lying there, looking up, and thinking, this is actually so crazy. I’m so lucky this is my job. I feel so alive.
GG: What’s a hope you’re carrying into the near future?
MG: I’d like to carry less resentment. I want to get over things that plague me, because holding onto that and letting how someone else treats you dictate how you move through life now is insane. Like… What are we doing?
GG: Live and let go.
Written by Gwyneth Giller
