Sotce and Gwyneth Giller on mysticism, money, and mortality for Girl Talk.
Like myself, Sotce believes in prayer and wearing bunny ears for no particular reason. She is a mystic, an artist, a romantic, and someone I’d describe as glittered with whimsy. Her worldview is deeply spiritual and radically suspicious of anything that promises control. I stepped away from our conversation subscribed to her universe and ready to surrender.
We cover it all: love, money, death, men, “career” as a forbidden word, wizards, the humiliations of being a woman, the secret desire for a family, and everything in between. Sotce has a spell-charged plastic heart that makes people fall in love with her and rolls a special die to answer yes-or-no questions. She’s cultivating a world that feels meaningful while accepting that sometimes the universe (or a UTI) will simply decide what happens next.
Gwyneth Giller: Are you based out of New York?
Sotce: Kind of. I find that New York is a good place to make money and then everywhere else in the world is good for learning and living. If I try to work on something in New York, someone’s knocking on my door every 20 minutes inviting me somewhere.
GG: I hear a lot of birds in the background, where are you currently?
Sotce: I’m at my mom’s house.
GG: Where are you from originally?
Sotce: Philly.
GG: What’s an unexpected vibe that Philadelphia gives?
Sotce: It’s spooky here.
GG: When was the last supernatural encounter you’ve had?
Sotce: I was watching this kitten over the summer and it died.
GG: Oh my god.
Sotce: I don’t know if that’s supernatural but, it passed over.
GG: Seeing life lost is really heavy.
Sotce: When a kitten dies it’s really sad.
GG: How did you handle that? Were you devastated?
Sotce: Yeah. I wasn’t there when it happened and we just prayed for it.
GG: Do you pray often?
Sotce: Yeah.
GG: Who do you pray to?
Sotce: I don’t know. I guess my protectors.
GG: Same. I just love to hear about how hot girls pray and what their rituals are. Do you have any spiritually charged objects that you look to?
Sotce: Oh girl, you have no idea. I don’t even know how to answer that. Do you?
GG: Yeah, a lot of dead insects that I’ve found around my house and built little shrines to.
Sotce: That’s unique.
GG: Yeah, it feels very special.
Sotce: I feel like I’ve been with a lot of teachers and I’ve gotten a lot of gifts and support materials.
GG: Say more.
Sotce: For example, I have this little plastic heart and when I hang it above the door frame, whoever I’m in love with falls in love with me. And I have this dice that answers yes or no questions accurately.
GG: Where did you get the heart?
Sotce: I was training with these wizards when I was 18. They were all-knowing, all-seeing deities, and I just wouldn’t stop asking them about my boyfriend. I kept being like, “Wait, but does he really like me? Does he miss me?” And I think they just got so sick of me that they took this foil and did this spell, and they put it in the heart. And they were like, “Here, keep this above your waist at all times, and anybody you come in contact with will be in love with you.”
GG: Wow.
Sotce: At the time, I didn’t take it very seriously, but it kind of worked out. Once I left it, I forgot it on the second floor of this school. So then I had to put in my rider that I couldn’t go above the second floor until they mailed it back to me.
GG: Is this heart in the works right now? Are you currently in love?
Sotce: Yeah, I think so.
GG: Are they in love with you?
Sotce: Definitely.
GG: [laughs] What do you identify as when someone asks you about your energy and spirituality?
Sotce: That’s such an interesting question. I’m Buddhist. I feel like I talk about this all the time though, and I’m not necessarily a good representation of the religion as a whole.
GG: How does the word “witch” sit with you?
Sotce: I would just call myself a mystic.
GG: What’s the most embarrassing thing you’ve ever done in the name of love?
Sotce: Well, I had this essay that I was commissioned to write about a year ago, and I wrote it about my boyfriend at the time. I really laid into him. And then I realized the next day after I had submitted it that I had submitted it to these 40-year-old men. There was something about that that made me dry heave. It’s like, not safe in their hands. So I rewrote it and sent it to them, and they at least, for my sake, pretended they hadn’t read the first one.
GG: What was the harshest thing that you said in the essay?
Sotce: I don’t know. I can’t read things after I write them so I have no idea.
GG: Have you ever been to a psychic?
Sotce: Not in the way you’re thinking.
GG: I have a very organized view of psychics—the quintessential New York City pop-in psychic or Long Island Medium. But obviously, I know that they just walk among us.
Sotce: I’ve never been to one of the shops.
GG: What was the last thing that someone with psychic ability warned you about?
Sotce: I had someone look at some information a few weeks ago, and they said that I should make more money, but not as much as I want. But that kind of seemed like a toss-in because, isn’t that true of everyone, always?
GG: How much do you want?
Sotce: I don’t know. I’ve been asking everyone that question because I’m really confused. Everyone has vastly different answers. How much is enough?
GG: As long as I can pay my bills and afford occasional luxuries, I’m happy. But also, in the words of Lana Del Rey, I want money, power, and glory. That’s actually kind of sexy.
Sotce: But I feel like she’s playing a character. Her entire project is coming from that specific mood and fantasy that is so pervasive and Americana. I don’t think her genuine personality is like that, you know?
GG: True. Who is your pop star idol?
Sotce: I don’t really pay attention to that stuff.
GG: What does your flow state look like?
Sotce: When I feel that something I’m doing or able to do is meaningful and important, then I’m unstoppable. But it’s not always easy to arrive there, especially when so much output is clouded by mundane parts of the mind, like, “What’s good for me? What do I want? Me, me, me. How do I feel about this?” You have to be able to relinquish that sort of self-pervasive nature in order to do anything useful.
GG: Ego as the death of genuine importance.
Sotce: Yeah.
GG: Do you feel like your third eye has opened?
Sotce: No.
GG: On a scale of 1 to 10, how forgiving of a person are you?
Sotce: I’m very forgiving.
GG: Do you believe in closure?
Sotce: No, I feel like if someone’s looking for that, they just want to get back together.
GG: What’s your most irrational ick?
Sotce: I don’t like when people are nervous.
GG: What’s the most humiliating thing about being a woman?
Sotce: Oh. I mean, I think a lot of men hate women. And I think experiencing that one-sidedly can be deeply violating.
GG: When was the last time you felt that out in the wild?
Sotce: Two nights ago, I was on a train that was relatively empty, and then some guy came and sat across from me and was just staring at me. And it’s like, oh you’re just going to stare at me and bite your lip for the next four hours, and I can’t tell you to stop or do anything.
GG: Oh, super violating. Last night I was walking my dog, and this guy was also walking around the lake and said, “Do you live here, young lady?” And I was like, “Yes.” And he was like, “Well, why don’t you come take a walk with me?”
Sotce: Oh my gosh.
GG: I felt so obligated to go too. Kind of humiliating how bad I felt just for rejecting him.
Sotce: My friend and I were hanging out with this guy over the weekend, and he messaged her yesterday asking if she wanted a massage.
GG: That’s so insane. What was the vibe of this guy?
Sotce: He was just a normal guy, but it was so out of nowhere.
GG: Sometimes I actually feel really bad for men. A lot of them weren’t taught to be attuned to others. Women are socially conditioned to do it to a fault. But I’m always so critical of men for being absolutely delusional, and I think it really stems from a place of being out of touch with their surroundings in a really sad and isolating way. Not to be a men-apologist.
Sotce: I think it’s also more than just complaining or having gripes with dating. As white women from Western countries, we need to be having these conversations on behalf of all the women who can’t.
GG: Absolutely. It’s important to hold everyone in our direct communities accountable to at least having these considerations.
Sotce: True.
GG: When was the last time you felt yourself surrender to the universe?
Sotce: The plane I took yesterday—I wasn’t sure if I had a seat or if I had any luggage included with my ticket. It was sold out, and I had bought the ticket on some third-party site and didn’t receive any confirmation.
GG: Weird.
Sotce: So I just went to the airport. And I had stayed with this woman I’d met the day before, so I guess that was surrender. Then the day before that, I realized I had a UTI and just walked to the hospital with my suitcase, so I guess that was surrender too. There’s actually nothing we have control over.
GG: Crazy that all of these uncontrollable factors are what make up our narratives, which end up being foundational to who we are. Also, that must have been a horrible UTI.
Sotce: No, it was crazy, but I was very calm. I was just kind of like, “Okay, this is what’s happening right now. I guess I have to go do this.” And they didn’t charge me at the hospital.
GG: Wait. That’s beautiful.
Sotce: Then I was sitting outside with these men, and their brother had just died, they were talking about their brother. Then these couples kept coming out with newborn babies.
GG: Are you the kind of person who’s always gravitating towards strangers?
Sotce: Well, I love hanging out outside hospitals. People get cured, people are born, people have very successful triple bypass surgeries.
GG: What is something you want badly but feel embarrassed to admit that you want?
Sotce: A family.
GG: What’s one thing that you think every girl should experience at least once?
Sotce: Hmm. I’m not sure we’re entitled to any experience at all.
GG: That’s a good answer. What is something that you’re currently trying to let go of that’s proving to be hard?
Sotce: I think I have this false sense of safety that comes from being rewarded by institutional accolades and so I’m trying to let go of seeking their approval and support. I’m not necessarily doing my job as an artist that way, and it’s not a particularly interesting way to live.
GG: And “safe” is such an interesting word because there are so many levels of safety in one’s career.
Sotce: And career is such a sad word, don’t you think?
GG: Yeah, we live to work, when it should work to live.
Sotce: And I love working. I love feeling like I’m serving my audience and my community. But I feel like I’ve taken a few years’ detour from that.
GG: I think that’s a beautiful way to look at it—and a very sweet way to end: fulfilling your creative calling, helping people, or simply giving people a chance to find beauty in something. Sometimes, that’s all you can do.
Written by Gwyneth Giller
